Septicemia/Bacteremia/Fungemia: Difference between revisions

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{{DX tag | Septicemia (Bacteremia/Fungemia) | SEPTICEMIA (BACTEREMIA/FUNGEMIA) | 46-00 | '''Critical Care and Medicine''' |Currently Collected }}
''Note: See also [[Septic Shock]], [[Severe Sepsis]]''
==Definition==
==Definition==
{{DX tag | Septicemia (Bacteremia/Fungemia) | SEPTICEMIA (BACTEREMIA/FUNGEMIA) | 46-00 | '''Critical Care and Medicine''' | Currently Collected }}
Also see: [[Septic Shock]] or [[Severe Sepsis]]
'''Septicemia''' is the presence of bacteria/fungus in the blood ('''bacteremia, fungemia''').
'''Septicemia''' is the presence of bacteria/fungus in the blood ('''bacteremia, fungemia''').


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==Examples==
==Examples==
''Physicians in general, follow their own varied and inconsistent guidelines when documenting the diagnosis of septicemia, severe sepsis or shock therefore it can be a challenge for data collectors particularly when the DX is septic shock or severe sepsis.''  The examples here provide a guideline for collectors on how to code. [[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)
''Physicians in general, follow their own varied and inconsistent guidelines when documenting the diagnosis of septicemia, severe sepsis or shock therefore it can be a challenge for data collectors particularly when the DX is septic shock or severe sepsis.''  The examples here provide a guideline for collectors on how to code. [[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)


===Patient admitted with urosepsis, treated, affecting blood culture results===
*When a patient has been admitted with '''urosepsis''' as an example, and has been determined by the physician to be '''septicemic''' and has received '''antibiotics before the blood cultures''' have been drawn and thereby affecting the results showing negative culture. Coding criteria for septicemia on page 10 of diagnosis code book is defined as "positive blood cultures".
*When a patient has been admitted with '''urosepsis''' as an example, and has been determined by the physician to be '''septicemic''' and has received '''antibiotics before the blood cultures''' have been drawn and thereby affecting the results showing negative culture. Coding criteria for septicemia on page 10 of diagnosis code book is defined as "positive blood cultures".
'''**TRISH REPLY'''[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)
====Instructions====
**1.septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (if a blood culture was sent & no bugs) '''AND'''
*1.septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (if a blood culture was sent & no bugs) '''AND'''
**2.urosepsis(51) – subcode (65)- negative culture (if a urine culture was sent & no bugs)  or subcode (92) –if no urine culture sent.''
*2.urosepsis(51) – subcode (65)- negative culture (if a urine culture was sent & no bugs)  or subcode (92) –if no urine culture sent.''[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)
*Also, physician are recording the diagnosis of '''septicemia''' even when '''blood cultures''' are '''negative''' (negative cultures even with no antibiotics given pre blood cultures draw).


**How do you want these patients captured?? Is capturing '''cystitis with a bug''', if found, adequate and '''septicemia''' should NOT be coded, or use code '''septicemia''' and subcode as '''“culture negative'''” if physician is calling it septicemia?
===Physician Recording Sepsis without +ve blood culture ===
'''***Trish Reply'''[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST).
"I don't expect a collector to make the DX or debating with the physician about it therefore code the physician's working DX for this problem.  Of course if chart notes are really not clear you can ask the physician."(Trish)
Physicians are recording the diagnosis of '''septicemia''' even when '''blood cultures''' are '''negative''' (negative cultures even with no antibiotics given pre blood cultures draw). Is capturing '''cystitis with a bug''', if found, adequate and '''septicemia''' should '''''not''''' be coded, or use code '''septicemia''' and subcode as '''“culture negative'''” if physician is calling it septicemia? Do we code as septicemia subcode “negative culture”?
====Instructions====
***1. ''septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (blood culture was sent & no bugs ID'd).'' '''AND'''
***1. ''septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (blood culture was sent & no bugs ID'd).'' '''AND'''
***2.''urosepsis (51) – subcode (XX) type of bug ID’d''
***2.''urosepsis (51) – subcode (XX) type of bug ID’d''
[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)




**If physician records the diagnosis of septicemia and that is their working diagnosis without a positive culture, do we code as septicemia subcode “negative culture”?
===Physician recording severe sepsis or septic shock when not all criteria are met===
''***Trish Reply:''[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)  
"I don't expect a collector to make the DX or debating with the physician about it therefore code the physician's working DX for this problem. Of course if chart notes are really not clear you can ask the physician."(Trish)
***septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (if blood culture was sent & no bugs ID’d).
***'''OR'''
***''septicemia (46) – subcode (92) –no culture sent (if no blood culture was sent)''.
 
 
*A similar question in regards to the definitions for severe sepsis, and septic shock if applicable. We have seen people who NOT meet all the criteria, yet they are exhibiting signs of either severe sepsis, or septic shock, and that is what the Dr. has diagnosed and is treating..--JHutton 11:13, 25 June 2008 (CDT).
*A similar question in regards to the definitions for severe sepsis, and septic shock if applicable. We have seen people who NOT meet all the criteria, yet they are exhibiting signs of either severe sepsis, or septic shock, and that is what the Dr. has diagnosed and is treating..--JHutton 11:13, 25 June 2008 (CDT).
**TRISH REPLY:[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]]10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST).
====Instructions ====
**''if this is the working DX that the physician is treating then this is what the collector must code as the DX''.
If this is the working DX that the physician is treating then this is what the collector must code as the DX.
[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]]10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST).


{{Discussion}}
{{Discussion}}
==Discussion==
==Discussion==
*''If a patient doesn't meet the criteria for shock or severe sepsis to a tee then what would the DX be then?  I don't expect a collector to make the DX or debating with the physician about it therefore code the physician's working DX for this problem.  Of course if chart notes are really not clear you can ask the physician.
I will try to summarize this discussion as it's becoming messy and fragmented. [[User:Ttenbergen|Ttenbergen]] 10:31, 8 January 2009 (CST)
**So the criteria for coding '''septic shock''' and '''septicemia''' has changed and we do not have to follow the criteria in the code book? If sepsis is the  is doctors working diagnosis than code that regardless of our former criteria? If this is a change in the way we are data collecting should we make sure everyone knows in a email? I would hate information this important being missed![[User:GHall|GHall]] 14:18, 7 January 2009 (CST)  
* I moved SKiesman's comment re. Kidney Infection to a new article for that dx, [[Kidney infections/abcesses]]. The article only has a question in it at this time and needs more content. [[User:Ttenbergen|Ttenbergen]] 10:00, 8 January 2009 (CST)
***Coding here has not changed from what is in the code book.[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 16:33, 7 January 2009 (CST)
 
****OK I have talked to Tina and she feels email is not a good method of communicating the changes to coding. She encourages people to click on the "diff" to identify changes. She has shown me how to do this and it does look like a good way to find out what has really changed.[[User:GHall|GHall]] 14:36, 7 January 2009 (CST).
===Does this mean the definition has changed?===
*****That is great. New tool. Takes time for everyone to learn how to use it.[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 16:33, 7 January 2009 (CST)  
Change to these instructions raised the concern that it conflicts with pervious instructions from the collection guide. Trish stated that there was no change. Instead the change to this article was meant to clarify that "''Negative or inconclusive blood cultures do not preclude a diagnosis of septicemia in patients with clinical evidence of the condition.''"[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 17:12, 7 January 2009 (CST)--
***I have never seen a doctor call something septicemia when blood cultures are negative. They however do occasionally call a patient septic or having sepsis which only means that the pt is presenting with symptoms of infection but may or may not have positive culturesI don't think our criteria has changed at all and I think we have to be very careful not to call things septic shock or septicemia without specific criteria.  I diagree with the changes being made. --[[User:LKolesar|LKolesar]] 15:33, 7 January 2009 (CST)
There are concerns that this caveat will result in a lack of vigilance to only collect true septicemias rather than taking the doctor's word for it.  
****There are no changes being made.  Physicians do document this DX without positive blood cultures. When Dr. Kumar reviews the data, he has the option to pull charts and look at those profiles that had the DX of septicemia but no blood culture was sent to confirm this DX.[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 17:21, 7 January 2009 (CST) 
The change in these rules might result in over-reporting, but for research purposes over-reporting is much more easily corrected than under-reporting, since a patient can easily be excluded from research if chart review shows they do not match criteria.
*****Although a patient may show clinical evidence of septicemia, the blood culture may be negative due to difficulty in culturing fastidious organisms from blood, growth inhibitory factors in the blood, or initiation of specific antibiotic therapy before laboratory test samples are taken. ''Negative or inconclusive blood cultures do not preclude a diagnosis of septicemia in patients with clinical evidence of the condition.''[[User:TOstryzniuk|TOstryzniuk]] 17:12, 7 January 2009 (CST)
=====Further discussion of this?=====
* anything still unclear?
 
===Concerns that people might miss this important change===
One data collector was concerned that important changes like this might be missed if we rely on data collectors following the '''Recent Changes''', and suggested email notification of important changesTina is worried that if there is notification of ''"important"'' changes, people will feel that it is not necessary to keep up to date with Recent Changes.  
Upon discussion with the data collector, Tina found out that the problem was really one of lack of understanding how to use the Recent Changes. If everyone could review and follow the instructions in [[My Preferences in the wiki]], then clicking on '''"diff"''' or '''"# changes"''' for the changed article, rather than the link for the article, one will actually see a '''''Summary of the changes''''' rather than just the new version of the article. This makes reviewing Recent Changes much easier!
=====Further discussion of this?=====
* anything still unclear?
 


* I moved SKiesman's comment re. Kidney Infection to a new article for that dx, [[Kidney infections/abcesses]]. The article only has a question in it at this time and needs more content. [[User:Ttenbergen|Ttenbergen]] 10:00, 8 January 2009 (CST)
*Shirley Kiesman's question, is in regards to urosepsis. This
thread should stay in the septicemia content until clarified.[[User:WGobert|WGobert]] 10:13, 8 January 2009 (CST)
[[Category:Diagnosis Coding]]
[[Category:Diagnosis Coding]]
**Historically at the Vic, when a Dr. had a working DX of urosepsis, unless there was a positive blood culture, we have coded this only
as code 51 cystitis. On page 10 of the code book, septicemia is defined as positive blood cultures. So if code 51 is to include urosepsis, do we now code the 51 cystitis plus 46 septicemia, subcode
92 no culture sent? This changes the way we will collect urosepsis here at the vic.[[User:WGobert|WGobert]] 10:17, 8 January 2009 (CST)

Revision as of 10:31, 8 January 2009

Legacy Content

This page is about the pre-ICD10 diagnosis coding schema. See the ICD10 Diagnosis List, or the following for similar diagnoses in ICD10:Bacteremia

Click Expand to show legacy content.

Note: See also Septic Shock, Severe Sepsis

Definition

Septicemia is the presence of bacteria/fungus in the blood (bacteremia, fungemia).

Criteria

Positive (+ ve) blood cultures

  • if the physician's diagnosis is septicemia but no blood cultures was sent, code as follows:
    • septicemia (46)– subcode (92) –no blood culture sent
  • if the physician diagnosis is septicemia and a blood culture was sent, code as follows:
    • septicemia (46) - (a pathogen subcode) OR
    • septicemia (46) - subcode (64) - negative blood culture OR
    • septicemia (46) - subcode (68) - Unknown pathogen, if you are not clear which bug is causing the infection.
  • TOstryzniuk 18:48, 23 December 2008 (CST)

Examples

Physicians in general, follow their own varied and inconsistent guidelines when documenting the diagnosis of septicemia, severe sepsis or shock therefore it can be a challenge for data collectors particularly when the DX is septic shock or severe sepsis. The examples here provide a guideline for collectors on how to code. TOstryzniuk 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)

Patient admitted with urosepsis, treated, affecting blood culture results

  • When a patient has been admitted with urosepsis as an example, and has been determined by the physician to be septicemic and has received antibiotics before the blood cultures have been drawn and thereby affecting the results showing negative culture. Coding criteria for septicemia on page 10 of diagnosis code book is defined as "positive blood cultures".

Instructions

  • 1.septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (if a blood culture was sent & no bugs) AND
  • 2.urosepsis(51) – subcode (65)- negative culture (if a urine culture was sent & no bugs) or subcode (92) –if no urine culture sent.TOstryzniuk 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)

Physician Recording Sepsis without +ve blood culture

"I don't expect a collector to make the DX or debating with the physician about it therefore code the physician's working DX for this problem. Of course if chart notes are really not clear you can ask the physician."(Trish) Physicians are recording the diagnosis of septicemia even when blood cultures are negative (negative cultures even with no antibiotics given pre blood cultures draw). Is capturing cystitis with a bug, if found, adequate and septicemia should not be coded, or use code septicemia and subcode as “culture negative” if physician is calling it septicemia? Do we code as septicemia subcode “negative culture”?

Instructions

      • 1. septicemia (46) – subcode (65) –negative culture (blood culture was sent & no bugs ID'd). AND
      • 2.urosepsis (51) – subcode (XX) type of bug ID’d

TOstryzniuk 10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST)


Physician recording severe sepsis or septic shock when not all criteria are met

"I don't expect a collector to make the DX or debating with the physician about it therefore code the physician's working DX for this problem. Of course if chart notes are really not clear you can ask the physician."(Trish)

  • A similar question in regards to the definitions for severe sepsis, and septic shock if applicable. We have seen people who NOT meet all the criteria, yet they are exhibiting signs of either severe sepsis, or septic shock, and that is what the Dr. has diagnosed and is treating..--JHutton 11:13, 25 June 2008 (CDT).

Instructions

If this is the working DX that the physician is treating then this is what the collector must code as the DX. TOstryzniuk10:20, 23 December 2008 (CST).

Template:Discussion

Discussion

I will try to summarize this discussion as it's becoming messy and fragmented. Ttenbergen 10:31, 8 January 2009 (CST)

  • I moved SKiesman's comment re. Kidney Infection to a new article for that dx, Kidney infections/abcesses. The article only has a question in it at this time and needs more content. Ttenbergen 10:00, 8 January 2009 (CST)

Does this mean the definition has changed?

Change to these instructions raised the concern that it conflicts with pervious instructions from the collection guide. Trish stated that there was no change. Instead the change to this article was meant to clarify that "Negative or inconclusive blood cultures do not preclude a diagnosis of septicemia in patients with clinical evidence of the condition."TOstryzniuk 17:12, 7 January 2009 (CST)-- There are concerns that this caveat will result in a lack of vigilance to only collect true septicemias rather than taking the doctor's word for it. The change in these rules might result in over-reporting, but for research purposes over-reporting is much more easily corrected than under-reporting, since a patient can easily be excluded from research if chart review shows they do not match criteria.

Further discussion of this?
  • anything still unclear?

Concerns that people might miss this important change

One data collector was concerned that important changes like this might be missed if we rely on data collectors following the Recent Changes, and suggested email notification of important changes. Tina is worried that if there is notification of "important" changes, people will feel that it is not necessary to keep up to date with Recent Changes. Upon discussion with the data collector, Tina found out that the problem was really one of lack of understanding how to use the Recent Changes. If everyone could review and follow the instructions in My Preferences in the wiki, then clicking on "diff" or "# changes" for the changed article, rather than the link for the article, one will actually see a Summary of the changes rather than just the new version of the article. This makes reviewing Recent Changes much easier!

Further discussion of this?
  • anything still unclear?