Septic Shock: Difference between revisions
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{{ | {{PreICD10 dx | NewDxArticle = Shock, septic }} | ||
{{DX tag | Cardiovascular Problems | Medical Problem | Septic Shock| SEPTIC SHOCK | 4400 | No| 0 |'''Critical Care and Medicine''' | Currently Collected | |}} | |||
Mutually exclusive with [[Severe Sepsis]] | Mutually exclusive with [[Severe Sepsis]] | ||
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See [[QA Septic Shock]]- special project | See [[QA Septic Shock]]- special project | ||
Use definition in [[Shock, septic]]. <!-- as per AG in discussion at that page 2018-11-30 --> | |||
{{LegacyContent | |||
|explanation=use new definition in [[Shock, septic]] | |||
|successor=[[Shock, septic]] | |||
|content= | |||
==Definition == | ==Definition == | ||
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*If the above criteria are not met: | *If the above criteria are not met: | ||
** see [[Severe Sepsis]] | ** see [[Severe Sepsis]] | ||
=== | |||
=== Positive Culture nor required === | |||
*'''a POSITIVE CULTURE''' is '''NOT required''' for '''septic shock''' | *'''a POSITIVE CULTURE''' is '''NOT required''' for '''septic shock''' | ||
Line 63: | Line 72: | ||
Go to category: [[:Category: Shock | ''Shock'']] | Go to category: [[:Category: Shock | ''Shock'']] | ||
== | ==Cross checks== | ||
* Septic shock ( | * Septic shock (4400) is mutually exclusive with 4500 [[Severe Sepsis]]. | ||
* [[ | I don't think this was ever implemented, can't find any evidence of it. Do we need it? | ||
* "query s tmp QASeptic Dx no tmp" | |||
* [[query s tmp QASeptic tmp no dx]] | |||
== Questions & Answers == | == Questions & Answers == | ||
=== use your judgement === | |||
#If the 1st criteria for low BP "IS" met but 2nd criteria is "NOT" met (which is tmp >38.5 or HR >90 or RR >20) examples may be patient is either sedated, ventilated, or patient is hypothermic or heart rate is less than 90 for what ever reason, would they still meet the definition of septic shock if only 1st and 3rd criteria (organ failure) are met? OR....do we code as [[Severe Sepsis]] (which includes organ failure but excludes low BP). If so, how do we capture the low BP? [[Severe Sepsis]] is organ failure but excludes low BP.[[User: GHall |Gail Hall]], [[User: Jpeterson | Joyce Peterson]], [[User: Mlaporte | Marie Laporte]][[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 15:52, 2012 June 1 (CDT) | #If the 1st criteria for low BP "IS" met but 2nd criteria is "NOT" met (which is tmp >38.5 or HR >90 or RR >20) examples may be patient is either sedated, ventilated, or patient is hypothermic or heart rate is less than 90 for what ever reason, would they still meet the definition of septic shock if only 1st and 3rd criteria (organ failure) are met? OR....do we code as [[Severe Sepsis]] (which includes organ failure but excludes low BP). If so, how do we capture the low BP? [[Severe Sepsis]] is organ failure but excludes low BP.[[User: GHall |Gail Hall]], [[User: Jpeterson | Joyce Peterson]], [[User: Mlaporte | Marie Laporte]][[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 15:52, 2012 June 1 (CDT) | ||
#*Dr. Kumar & Roberts both advise this: use judgement, if it appears to be a shock '''related specifically to an infection''' and is being treated as such even though the criteria for (T,HR,RR) is not met for some of the above stated reasons, then code as septic shock This is different from [[VAP]] because for VAP no one in the world agrees on a standard definition, that is why we stick to very specific criteria regarding VAP for our purposes. (as per Dr. Kumar).[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | #*Dr. Kumar & Roberts both advise this: use judgement, if it appears to be a shock '''related specifically to an infection''' and is being treated as such even though the criteria for (T,HR,RR) is not met for some of the above stated reasons, then code as septic shock This is different from [[VAP]] because for VAP no one in the world agrees on a standard definition, that is why we stick to very specific criteria regarding VAP for our purposes. (as per Dr. Kumar).[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | ||
#***Dr. Kumar would like to emphasize to collectors that SEPTIC SHOCK means shock is thought to be DRIVEN BY infection and not just associated with infection. Example, if someone has another obvious cause of shock with infection (like massive hemorrhage with it), that does not mean it is combined hemorrhagic and septic shock. Basically, septic shock should '''not''' be called if there is another obvious cause for shock.[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | === shock that is not septic shock === | ||
Dr. Kumar has also advised that anyone who has shock due to liver failure, pancreatitis drug overdoses or burns '''WITHOUT overt evidence of major infection''' don't code as septic shock. In his audit he has seen a lot of these codes as septic shock. | |||
#***Dr. Kumar would like to emphasize to collectors that SEPTIC SHOCK means shock is thought to be DRIVEN BY infection and not just associated with infection. Example, if someone has another obvious cause of shock with infection (like massive hemorrhage with it), that does not mean it is combined hemorrhagic and septic shock. Basically, septic shock should '''not''' be called if there is another obvious cause for shock.[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | |||
=== does unmeasurably low BP count as "first low BP === | |||
Patient in ER with no measurable BP. Tx with fluids, still no measurable BP. Difficulty inserting central line, suspected sepsis. Started on dopamine in ER. Also given antibiotic for suspected sepsis. '''Question''' is this, if BP unmeasurable or not registering but pt is being treated for septic shock is this the time of the first low BP ? I spoke to Kendiss this morning-the answer is "yes"-the unmeasurable BP could be the first low BP for the study if the patient is thought to be is shock due to infection. --[[User:Mlaporte|Mlaporte]] 08:00, 2012 June 4 (CDT)[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | |||
=== | |||
=== should criteria include hypothermia? === | |||
*most criteria for septic shock include [[Hypothermia]]. | |||
**'''After''' of [[QASeptic]] Project is completed in June or July 2012, we will add hypothermia to septic shock criteria as per Kendiss Olfason. Critical Care QI team agree to add. [[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | |||
* Brought this up again at our staff meeting that should hypothermia should be in the criteria for septic shock as discussed in 2012?[[User:GHall|GHall]] 15:53, 2017 March 9 (CST) | |||
** And? Was there an answer? Ttenbergen 16:12, 2017 March 9 (CST) No answer yet TBA. | |||
=== criteria met initially, but resolved by "Arrive DtTm" === | |||
If a patient meets all criteria for septic shock and this was the reason they were accepted to the ICU, however by the time they arrive to the ICU hours later,their vital signs are stable, and their GCS has improved/creatinine has normalized how should this be coded? Would it still be coded as septic shock, or would it simply be coded as infection ie.)cellulitis/cystitis?[[User:Mlagadi|Mlagadi]] | |||
=== 80% coded correctly === | |||
About 10% of cases of septic shock in the database are overtly miscoded and are really obviously something else. Another 10% are not clearly septic shock. 80% are solidly coded. This is higher than any other database he has used.[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | About 10% of cases of septic shock in the database are overtly miscoded and are really obviously something else. Another 10% are not clearly septic shock. 80% are solidly coded. This is higher than any other database he has used.[[User:TOstryzniuk|Trish Ostryzniuk]] 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT) | ||
*It would be nice to compare with Dr Kumar which cases he felt were not true septic shock pictures and use that info to help us in fine tuning our data collecting.In other words to learn from our mistakes. | *It would be nice to compare with Dr Kumar which cases he felt were not true septic shock pictures and use that info to help us in fine tuning our data collecting.In other words to learn from our mistakes. | ||
[[Category: Shock]] | }} | ||
[[Category:Shock (old)]] | |||
[[Category: Sepsis]] | [[Category: Sepsis]] | ||
Latest revision as of 15:45, 2022 April 14
Legacy Content
This page is about the pre-ICD10 diagnosis coding schema. See the ICD10 Diagnosis List, or the following for similar diagnoses in ICD10:Shock, septicClick Expand to show legacy content.
edit dx infobox | |
Category/Organ System: |
Category: Cardiovascular Problems (old) |
Type: |
|
Main Diagnosis: | Septic Shock |
Sub Diagnosis: | SEPTIC SHOCK |
Diagnosis Code: | 4400 |
Comorbid Diagnosis: | No |
Charlson Comorbid coding (pre ICD10): | 0 |
Program: | Critical Care and Medicine |
Status: | Currently Collected
|
Mutually exclusive with Severe Sepsis
Also see Septicemia definition.
See QA Septic Shock- special project
Use definition in Shock, septic.
Legacy Content
This page contains Legacy Content.- Explanation: use new definition in Shock, septic
- Successor: Shock, septic
Click Expand to show legacy content.
Definition
Dr. Kumar would like to emphasize to collectors that SEPTIC SHOCK means shock is thought to be DRIVEN BY infection and not just associated with infection. Example, if someone has another obvious cause of shock with infection (like massive hemorrhage with it), that does not mean it is combined hemorrhagic and septic shock. Basically, septic shock should not be called if there is another obvious cause for shock.--Trish Ostryzniuk 18:23, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
Criteria for coding septic shock
- If at least one of the following is present:
- systolic BP < 90 mmHg for > 30 minutes and not responding to fluid resuscitation
- or
- mean (m)BP < 65 mmHg for > 30 min
- or
- BP drop of > 40 mmHg from baseline for > 30 min
- or
- use of vasopressor to maintain systolic BP >= 90 mmHg in the absence of other causes of shock, e.g. Go to: Other types of shock
- systolic BP < 90 mmHg for > 30 minutes and not responding to fluid resuscitation
- Plus at least two of:
- temperature > 38.5 C
- HR > 90
- RR > 20
Plus at least one of (organ failure):
- Neuro changes: GCS < 14
- Lactic Acidosis: at least one of
- LA > 2.0 or
- PH < 7.30 or
- BE < 10
- Oliguria: at least one of
- urine < 0.5 cc/kg/hr or
- urine output < 30 ml / hr or
- serum creatinine increase > 40 uM from baseline
- Hypoxia: at least one of
- Coagulopathy: drop in platelets > 25% from baseline plus at least one of
- > 25% PT or
- > 25% PTT or
- NR >1.5
Examples of other conditions that can cause shock:
- hypovolemia (Hypovolemic/Hemorrhagic Shock)
- MI (Cardiogenic Shock)
- pulmonary embolus
- liver failure
- pancreatitis
- drug overdoses
- burns
- Note: Although these conditions can cause shock on their own, if the patient has an obvious serious sepsis with shock, you can still code septic shock even with these conditions.
- If the above criteria are not met:
- see Severe Sepsis
Positive Culture nor required
- a POSITIVE CULTURE is NOT required for septic shock
- Dr. Kumar advised that we should not routinely code distributive shock as septic shock, it should be coded as "other shock. Because we do not have a code called "other shock" use: Hypotension NYD (not due to shock or post op). --Trish Ostryzniuk 18:21, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
All other shock codes Available
Go to category: Shock
Cross checks
- Septic shock (4400) is mutually exclusive with 4500 Severe Sepsis.
I don't think this was ever implemented, can't find any evidence of it. Do we need it?
- "query s tmp QASeptic Dx no tmp"
- query s tmp QASeptic tmp no dx
Questions & Answers
use your judgement
- If the 1st criteria for low BP "IS" met but 2nd criteria is "NOT" met (which is tmp >38.5 or HR >90 or RR >20) examples may be patient is either sedated, ventilated, or patient is hypothermic or heart rate is less than 90 for what ever reason, would they still meet the definition of septic shock if only 1st and 3rd criteria (organ failure) are met? OR....do we code as Severe Sepsis (which includes organ failure but excludes low BP). If so, how do we capture the low BP? Severe Sepsis is organ failure but excludes low BP.Gail Hall, Joyce Peterson, Marie LaporteTrish Ostryzniuk 15:52, 2012 June 1 (CDT)
- Dr. Kumar & Roberts both advise this: use judgement, if it appears to be a shock related specifically to an infection and is being treated as such even though the criteria for (T,HR,RR) is not met for some of the above stated reasons, then code as septic shock This is different from VAP because for VAP no one in the world agrees on a standard definition, that is why we stick to very specific criteria regarding VAP for our purposes. (as per Dr. Kumar).Trish Ostryzniuk 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
shock that is not septic shock
Dr. Kumar has also advised that anyone who has shock due to liver failure, pancreatitis drug overdoses or burns WITHOUT overt evidence of major infection don't code as septic shock. In his audit he has seen a lot of these codes as septic shock.
- Dr. Kumar would like to emphasize to collectors that SEPTIC SHOCK means shock is thought to be DRIVEN BY infection and not just associated with infection. Example, if someone has another obvious cause of shock with infection (like massive hemorrhage with it), that does not mean it is combined hemorrhagic and septic shock. Basically, septic shock should not be called if there is another obvious cause for shock.Trish Ostryzniuk 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
does unmeasurably low BP count as "first low BP
Patient in ER with no measurable BP. Tx with fluids, still no measurable BP. Difficulty inserting central line, suspected sepsis. Started on dopamine in ER. Also given antibiotic for suspected sepsis. Question is this, if BP unmeasurable or not registering but pt is being treated for septic shock is this the time of the first low BP ? I spoke to Kendiss this morning-the answer is "yes"-the unmeasurable BP could be the first low BP for the study if the patient is thought to be is shock due to infection. --Mlaporte 08:00, 2012 June 4 (CDT)Trish Ostryzniuk 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
should criteria include hypothermia?
- most criteria for septic shock include Hypothermia.
- After of QASeptic Project is completed in June or July 2012, we will add hypothermia to septic shock criteria as per Kendiss Olfason. Critical Care QI team agree to add. Trish Ostryzniuk 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
- Brought this up again at our staff meeting that should hypothermia should be in the criteria for septic shock as discussed in 2012?GHall 15:53, 2017 March 9 (CST)
- And? Was there an answer? Ttenbergen 16:12, 2017 March 9 (CST) No answer yet TBA.
criteria met initially, but resolved by "Arrive DtTm"
If a patient meets all criteria for septic shock and this was the reason they were accepted to the ICU, however by the time they arrive to the ICU hours later,their vital signs are stable, and their GCS has improved/creatinine has normalized how should this be coded? Would it still be coded as septic shock, or would it simply be coded as infection ie.)cellulitis/cystitis?Mlagadi
80% coded correctly
About 10% of cases of septic shock in the database are overtly miscoded and are really obviously something else. Another 10% are not clearly septic shock. 80% are solidly coded. This is higher than any other database he has used.Trish Ostryzniuk 18:15, 2012 June 11 (CDT)
- It would be nice to compare with Dr Kumar which cases he felt were not true septic shock pictures and use that info to help us in fine tuning our data collecting.In other words to learn from our mistakes.